RPGWatch - GotY 2015 Awards - Best RPG

[luj1]

Perhaps, I hope so. PoE was truly mediocre. It was done by the less experienced Obsidian's B-team , lead by Joshua "tends to get completely lost in ruleset crafting" Sawyer

 

[wolfgrimdark]

Just had to say been playing FO4 most of the day and digging into a lot of content I had missed the first time and it really is a great RPG. While the Witcher 3 is a fantastic game it is only a mediocre RPG [EDIT: by that I mean that the things I personally value in an RPG style game W3 did not do well and hence I personally consider it mediocre - but for those folks who put emphasis on other RPG elements they might easily consider it a great RPG] due to its rather linear and movie like style. Luckily a game for each persons preference so the voting, this year, seemed one of the best of the best since it reflected the varied taste around here.

So many options in FO4 to role play and create any character you want. They also did some great work on the companions. I may have to play FNV now to refresh my memory as I have been toting FNV as the better companions but after doing the entire Danse quest line I really like his character. He has moved up to my current favorite (he replaced Alistair from DAO who has been my favorite … and Alistair had replaced Minsc who held the position for the longest in BG).

Can only hope we see more great games like the winners in the future.

 

[Couchpotato]

Just had to say been playing FO4 most of the day and digging into a lot of content I had missed the first time and it really is a great RPG. While the Witcher 3 is a fantastic game it is only a mediocre RPG due to its rather linear and movie like style. Luckily a game for each persons preference so the voting, this year, seemed one of the best of the best since it reflected the varied taste around here.

One good thing about RPG games from 2015 is the various choices for every gamer to play. As for me I prefer story focused games like Witcher III & Pillars of Eternity.

I also enjoy playing open world games like Fallout 4 & Skyrim occasionally. So it was a smorgasbord last year. I also wouldn't call any winners a mediocre RPG though.

 

[wolfgrimdark]

One good thing about RPG games from 2015 is the various choices for every gamer to play. As for me I prefer linear story focused games like Witcher III & Pillars of Eternity.

I also enjoy playing open World games like Fallout 4 & Skyrim occasionally. So it was a smorgasbord last year. I also wouldn't call any winners a mediocre RPG though.

Oh I tried to make it clear I think the game is great! But to me personally the things I value in an RPG are mediocre for W3 (there I think that is a better way to phrase it - putting the emphasis on my own RPG values versus other peoples) because I had no choice in what I wanted to role play - which is a big part of my own definition of what I enjoy in an RPG. Even the ME games let you have more choice.

I know that doesn't bother most folks and they can just look past that part (or don't even notice it) but …well as I said I judge on fun factor and since I couldn't finish it that means it wasn't really a good RPG for me - it wasn't one I could really sink into like some other games I have played, past or current.

If it had been a book I would have gladly read it - I have all the books and they are some of my favorites.

It was mainly my way of pointing out that people bring their own focus to a game. For some they don't care about a defined character and focus on other RPG elements they value more.

Similar to FO4 on the action thingy. I can see how people call it an action RPG because you can really focus on the combat and ignore many other aspects. I am not a big combat person though … and was nervous going into this game because of that and what I had read. But turns out to be one of my top 10 favorite games now and I the combat is more secondary to my play style while in it.

 

[Couchpotato]

I completely understand wolfgrimdark as I follow your other threads on the forum. You love to create a character to immerse yourself, and make your own story.

 

[luj1]

... been playing FO4 most of the day and digging into a lot of content I had missed the first time and it really is a great RPG.
While the Witcher 3 is a fantastic game it is only a mediocre RPG

You keep using that word, I don't think you know what It means (RPG)

 

[JDR13]

You keep using that word, I don't think you know what It means (RPG)

I didn't realize that there's an exact definition.

 

[CelticFrost]

I didn't realize that there's an exact definition.

At the heart of any game are you not just playing a role no matter what game it is?

 

[daveyd]

At the heart of any game are you not just playing a role no matter what game it is?

Yes, but that's why virtually no one would define "role playing game" as any game where the player takes on a role. It would be as useless as defining an Action game as "any game where action occurs". Presumably anyone here uses a less broad definition of RPG. As we all know, the video game RPG genre originated as an attempt to simulate aspects of pen & paper / tabletop role-playing games.

I'm content to define an RPG as any game where the player's character/s have a stat or quantifiable value that can be improved or permanently altered as one progresses through the game (and that this stat has a lasting effect on game play so something like a "score" wouldn't be sufficient). In it's simplest form that can include games like Legend of Zelda, which has only one stat- Hearts. And while you don't increase hearts through the typical RPG means of gaining exp. and leveling up from killing enemies or completing quests (except in the cases where a boss leaves a heart), I'm not convinced that XP should be a requisite for a game to be called an RPG... (as it is essentially just a second stat that affects other stats). What differentiates RPGs from non-RPGs is that you can permanently increase a value by progressing through the game. I suppose you could choose a minimum number of stats higher than one but that seems arbitrary to me.

Of course, none of this has any bearing on whether a game is good or a "good RPG", which an almost entirely subjective evaluation of a game's fun factor. We can somewhat objectively say that a game with so many game-breaking bugs that it is essentially unplayable is "bad", but otherwise it just boils down to opinion. IMO any argument over whether a game is a "real RPG" is pointless. While it would be pretty irritating to most of us if a game which is obviously not an RPG by any stretch is marketed as one, in general it just doesn't matter.

 

[Myrthos]

I didn't realize that there's an exact definition.

That's where we have our nerdy CRPG analyser for

 

[azarhal]

At the heart of any game are you not just playing a role no matter what game it is?

That Mike Laidlaws's argument about CoD being a RPG.

I personally stick to the 80s-90s usage of cRPG: a games inspired by or based off PnP RPG systems. Anything else with character building not inspired by PnP RPGs was called and marketed as an action adventure game back then. Example, The Witcher 1 is a cRPG to me, the Witcher 2 and 3 are action adventure.

 

[daveyd]

That Mike Laidlaws's argument about CoD being a RPG.

I personally stick to the 80s-90s usage of cRPG: a games inspired by or based off PnP RPG systems. Anything else with character building not inspired by PnP RPGs was called and marketed as an action adventure game back then. Example, The Witcher 1 is a cRPG to me, the Witcher 2 and 3 are action adventure.

Only difference I can think of is that Witcher 1 includes "classic" attributes like Strength, Dexterity, etc. Are you saying that is a defining feature of cRPGs? I mean, any game where characters have a stat that you can increase as you progress is arguably "inspired by PnP RPGs". Things have gotten increasingly muddied as more games have RPG elements, but action / adventure traditionally don't have any stats you can increase by leveling up.

 

[azarhal]

Only difference I can think of is that Witcher 1 includes "classic" attributes like Strength, Dexterity, etc. Are you saying that is a defining feature of cRPGs? I mean, any game where characters have a stat that you can increase as you progress is arguably "inspired by PnP RPGs". Things have gotten increasingly muddied as more games have RPG elements, but action / adventure traditionally don't have any stats you can increase by leveling up.

You most not have played The Witcher 1 if you believe that the existence of attributes is the only differences. Also, that was my opinion, not point in arguing over it.

Having character building systems (with XP and levels) doesn't make a game a cRPG, so I don't see why recent action/adventure games should be excluded because they now have them. Unless you are saying that the Watch should cover the Batman Arkham series, the Saint-Rows series (3 and IV at least, I didn't play the older ones), the Tomb Raider rebooted series, the Call of Duty series (at least Black Ops 3) and countless other series with character building systems (with XP and levels).

 

[LordKane]

You most not have played The Witcher 1 if you believe that the existence of attributes is the only differences. Also, that was my opinion, not point in arguing over it.

Having character building systems (with XP and levels) doesn't make a game a cRPG, so I don't see why recent action/adventure games should be excluded because they now have them. Unless you are saying that the Watch should cover the Batman Arkham series, the Saint-Rows series (3 and IV at least, I didn't play the older ones), the Tomb Raider rebooted series, the Call of Duty series (at least Black Ops 3) and countless other series with character building systems (with XP and levels).

Hands down my vote is on the inclusion of the uncompromising RPG system of the old into every modern RPG, it's kind of dreamy isn't it?

I am disappointed by the water-downed system of RPG systems in Witcher 2 or 3, that said, I'm still inclined to call it an RPG, not necessarily a cRPG. That term is confined to such a small niche these days. I'm also not offended by these shooters and action games borrowing RPG elements, as it can only mean one thing: RPG is the in-thing now. I don't think they try to camouflage as RPG or destroy the genre by doing it.

And, ignore what Laidlaw has to say.

 

[Lev]

For me the definition of RPG is relatively simple. Any game that has a combination of leveling/exploration/quests/story/small party or solo/weapons&armour/ can be called a RPG or a game with RPG elements.
The nice thing about RPG is that while one may prefer story over other features (Witcher 3), another one may prefer leveling & gear (Diablo) and yet the third one may prefer exploration (Skyrim & Fallout).

 

[LordKane]

For me the definition of RPG is relatively simple. Any game that has a combination of leveling/exploration/quests/story/small party or solo/weapons&armour/ can be called a RPG or a game with RPG elements.
The nice thing about RPG is that while one may prefer story over other features (Witcher 3), another one may prefer leveling & gear (Diablo) and yet the third one may prefer exploration (Skyrim & Fallout).

Sounds cool to me =D

But in the reality, these categories of RPG gamers instead of uniting as a niche audience, tend to nitpick with each other and fight to the death in a verbal arena.

 

[Archangel]

Diablo, Witcher 3 and Skyrim a niche audience?

 

[LordKane]

Diablo, Witcher 3 and Skyrim a niche audience?

Uhh, whoever are still playing/modding those games to this date can be considered a niche, i guess?

Let's discount those with 1.5 hr game time on Steam record without stepping into the tower in Helgen or White Orchard.

 

[lackblogger]

While 2015 was a very good year for RPGs, it was more a year for derivative RPGs than classical cRPGs:

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - No character choice, Single character
Pillars of Eternity - Classical RPG but with cruddy last third/quarter
Fallout 4 - de-emphasised direction, emphasis on distractions
Underrail - Single character
Age of Decadence - A choose your own adventure
Shadowrun: Hong Kong - not sure yet, haven't looked into it much
Legends of Eisenwald - tactical battles, RPG and strategy elements, none with overall dominance
Undertale - Just messes with everything as it's selling point
Serpent in the Staglands - Classical RPG but with weird spell system
Blackguards 2 - emphasis on tactical battles and cutscenes

I mean, there's something for everyone there, but for anyone who's only really interested in the core RPGs, such as Wizardry-likes or Balder's Gate-likes then its as much a barren year as 2013 and before and 2014 was indeed a better year (with Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2 and Lords of Xulima all providing good solid >80% experiences.

And I would say there are 2 distinct types of classical experience because there's a distinct difference between a Dungeon Crawler and a predominantly over-world Heroic Epic Fantasy, though the two are equal in their claim to legitimacy, the core features being a customisable party of adventurers who loot and level via customisable paths while exploring someone's pre-made PNP-like module.

There have always been derivatives and derivatives can be extremely enjoyable games, just look at King's Bounty (early 1990s) and Diablo (mid-1990s), both of which gave birth to huge numbers of cash-ins and future classic games, but neither of which has ever really been classed as a 'proper' RPG even by knowledgeable fans.

Semantics are all fun and good for forum entertainment, but if you slap a Wizardry-like or a Baldur's Gate-like in-front of anyone here then they'll be like "oh cool, an RPG", but if you provide anything else then people will be like "ok, so what does this game do, what's it like?" (aside from the usual disinterest in very low budget/graphics games with virtually no hype), to which the first question is usually "Does it have respawns?" etc etc etc.

 

[joxer]

Mike Laidlaws's argument about CoD being a RPG
...
Example, The Witcher 1 is a cRPG to me, the Witcher 2 and 3 are action adventure.

Mike Ladilaw works where?
Sure, if a game uses Aurora garbage, must be RPG. If it uses another engine, ah, well...

TW2 and TW3 are RPGs. Only you're not roleplaying your imaginary character from scratch, but are roleplaying an existing character from literature.
Action adventure means what exactly. To me it means nothing, seen that description on games that contain absolutely no puzzles and we know what adventures (without action) tend to do.