Russian Game Developers & Ukraine Crisis

[Couchpotato]

As one Russian friend I play with on Steam said...

"Here in russia almost everyone blames west for this."

Reality is that is how the vast majority of Russian citizens feel right now.

 

[fadedc]

Given that Russia is arresting people who post disagreement about the war, if I were a Russian gamer I'd probably also be saying how all of this is the west's fault.

 

[Redglyph]

As one Russian friend I play with on Steam said…

"Here in russia almost everyone blames west for this."

Reality is that is how the vast majority of Russian citizens feel right now.

I was reading this article of the Guardian, which nuances this a little. It seems the young generations are more divided on the question, or at least regarding their support of Putin.

The Guardian view on Russian dissent: a slide to totalitarianism

(It is based on a recent poll, but which dates from a few days after the invasion, before the increase of sanctions.)

Even if they blame us, they perfectly know it's a consequence of Putin's actions, and the justification he gives may hopefully not be enough. I can't imagine how far their propaganda goes, they're infamous for it, but we see that the military themselves are realizing it's BS. It's not something that can be contained for a long time at this scale. Of course as @fadedc; said, there are severe repressive measures too ("Accounts of schoolchildren and their parents detained in police cells after laying flowers at the Ukrainian embassy").

Either way, the public will have time to make their mind based on facts later.

Given that Russia is arresting people who post disagreement about the war, if I were a Russian gamer I'd probably also be saying how all of this is the west's fault.

There's still a part of effective propaganda. My daughter spent some time in Russia after the events in Crimea, and people were openly hating the West, and not out of fear. Not everywhere, and not everyone, mainly in big cities like Moscow.

 

[Stingray]

I was reading this article of the Guardian, which nuances this a little. It seems the young generations are more divided on the question, or at least regarding their support of Putin.

The Guardian view on Russian dissent: a slide to totalitarianism

(It is based on a recent poll, but which dates from a few days after the invasion, before the increase of sanctions.)

Even if they blame us, they perfectly know it's a consequence of Putin's actions, and the justification he gives may hopefully not be enough. I can't imagine how far their propaganda goes, they're infamous for it, but we see that the military themselves are realizing it's BS. It's not something that can be contained for a long time at this scale. Of course as @fadedc; said, there are severe repressive measures too ("Accounts of schoolchildren and their parents detained in police cells after laying flowers at the Ukrainian embassy").

Either way, the public will have time to make their mind based on facts later.

Blaming "the west" (more specifically NATO expansionism) isn't complete fiction, there are many western analysts who agree and have been warning about this for decades. Since you linked an article from the Guardian, thus I assume you think they're a reasonable publication, here's another Guardian article arguing that exact point:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

 

[Couchpotato]

I always liked reading the Guardian. As they usually give different point of views on many topics. That's one of the main reasons why I hate reading CNN/MSNBC nowadays.

 

[Couchpotato]

So back to that steam ban on new game sales for Russia that's only happening because the banks were sanctioned, credit and debit cards are not accepted from Russia.

They can still use paypal or steam wallet, or get a vpn.

On the developer side it might be more tricky to get the money off sales of their games. I really don't see how it's legal to hold the funds, but sanctions are the main reason.

If sanctions ever do relax I foresee a lot of litigation to get those funds back. Also believe me it's a pain in the ass as paypal stole money from me before as well.

Took six months just to get my funds returned over internet sales.

 

[Redglyph]

Blaming "the west" (more specifically NATO expansionism) isn't complete fiction, there are many western analysts who agree and have been warning about this for decades. Since you linked an article from the Guardian, thus I assume you think they're a reasonable publication, here's another Guardian article arguing that exact point:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Thanks for the link! I only read it occasionally but it remains a good reference in my opinion too. Not that I'm an expert, far from it.

I don't think anybody said it's fiction, did I give that impression? The article I mentioned doesn't dismiss that at all either.

 

[largh]

I read from some news that a Ukrainian hacker group said that Russia is planning to cut the country out of the internet soon. As this might be war propaganda and I did not find any English news that were not behind paywall, I did not link it here. Anyway, Russia did practice this in 2019. I do not know if they managed. If they did and will do it, that's it for Russian gamers anyway without any Western sanctions.

 

[Couchpotato]

Sounds like Russia might try to emulate China with it's Great Firewall. As for the swift ban they have their own version as do china. So banking wont stop anytime soon.

SPFS

SPFS is a Russian equivalent of the SWIFT financial transfer system, developed by the Central Bank of Russia. The system has been in development since 2014, when the United States government threatened to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT system.

CIPS

The Cross-Border Interbank Payment System (CIPS) is a payment system which offers clearing and settlement services for its participants in cross-border RMB payments and trade. Backed by the People's Bank of China (PBOC), China launched the CIPS in 2015 to internationalise RMB use. CIPS also counts several foreign banks as shareholders including HSBC, Standard Chartered, the Bank of East Asia, DBS Bank, Citi, Australia and New Zealand Banking Group and BNP Paribas.

 

[Redglyph]

Owlcat Games just released the DLC and a patch, but there was no comment regarding the situation. I haven't seen anything on Discord either.

So back to that steam ban on new game sales for Russia that's only happening because the banks were sanctioned, and credit, debit cards are not accepted.

They can still use paypal or steam wallet, or get a vpn.

On the developer side it might be more tricky to get the money off sales of their games. I really don't see how it's legal to hold the funds, but sanctions are the main reason.

If sanctions ever do relax I foresee a lot of litigation to get those funds back. Also believe me it's a pain in the ass as paypal stole money from me before as well.

Took six moths just to get my funds returned over internet sales.

Paypal is still working for them? I was wondering. We just received an update of their contract terms, but there was nothing about zone exclusion in it, I was half expecting that when I saw it.

Yeah, for the devs and publishers it must be another matter, blocking SWIFT and the central banks must complicate things.

 

[largh]

Sounds like Russia might try to emulate China with it's Great Firewall.

Yeah, I understood that was the motive. I mean those "news" about Russia just cutting itself entirely out of the internet are likely propaganda. Anyway, I found news in English about the trial they had: https://www.reuters.com/technology/russia-disconnected-global-internet-tests-rbc-daily-2021-07-22/

According to other news they have worked on that and tried it multiple times. So, would be no surprise if they did it for their citizens to "protect them from NATO propaganda".

 

[Deleted member 18181]

https://www.engadget.com/cd-projekt-red-russia-belarus-ukraine-cyberpunk-2077-151853498.html CD Projekt Red will no longer sell games in Russia and Belarus

 

[Redglyph]

Customers from those areas can still access the games they own though. Always said GOG was the safest

PS: I think it's CD PROJEKT Group for this GOG bit, not CD PROJEKT Red which is more concerned with game development, so this is a sub-related news.

 

[Carnifex]

The Guardian has been my premiere news source for the past thirty years, with actual reporting and people that relate relevant news, they leave all the others in dust. I don't always agree with the journalists, yet at least they ARE journalists.

 

[SveNitoR]

Blaming "the west" (more specifically NATO expansionism) isn't complete fiction, there are many western analysts who agree and have been warning about this for decades. Since you linked an article from the Guardian, thus I assume you think they're a reasonable publication, here's another Guardian article arguing that exact point:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Interesting take (and something I've heard others claim before). However, correlation does not equal causation. Did Nato, and through them USA, expanding/talking to Eastern European countries cause Russia to attack? Hmm. Isn't that a bit like saying that it's the woman's fault she got hit when she talked to another guy?

I can sort of understand Russia feeling threatened by the US, since it is an aggressive country (how many aggressive wars has the US started since after WW2?). To use another metaphor: It's like a bigger bully (USA) getting former friends of the smaller bully (Russia) to hang out with him instead. Understandable to get angry with the former friends. However, the behavior is still atrocious. You talked to another alliance and now I'm scared, so I'll beat you into submission.

And claiming that the EU is somehow threatening is laughable. We have shit military power, which now, however, will be strengthened in the coming years. We are constantly squabbling and moving at a snail's pace.

Worse is the claim that the US intervened in a semi democratic countries voting process. But one country's wrongdoing doesn't excuse another's.

All that type of article actually says is: what if we'd done something else. Things might've been different. Yes that could be true. It could also be false.

 

[Stingray]

Did Nato, and through them USA, expanding/talking to Eastern European countries cause Russia to attack?

Sure, it's almost certainly part of it. Just look at what the US did when the USSR tried to do a similar thing with Cuba. I'll leave it to your imagination what would have happened if Mexico had tried to join the Warsaw Pact. It's not just a Russia thing.

 

[SveNitoR]

Sure, it's almost certainly part of it. Just look at what the US did when the USSR tried to do a similar thing with Cuba. I'll leave it to your imagination what would have happened if Mexico had tried to join the Warsaw Pact. It's not just a Russia thing.

Hmm. I believe I made the mistake of misunderstanding your intentions. I think you are not trying to defend Russia morally, just offering an explanation of a few factors, which might've influenced them (or rather Putin - he seems to call all the shots now). Sorry for responding that way, instead of just looking at the facts you presented.

More or less the same thing was said about 9/11 by some non-Americans: Treat others like shit, someone will retaliate. Of course Americans misinterpreted that as saying it was alright, when it was just an observation of what might've been a factor in why they chose to do a horrible thing. It's an explanation, not an excuse.

Thanks for replying in a level headed way to my misinterpretation.

 

[Myrthos]

I don't buy into the dogma of the NATO expansion being the cause of the war. Putin just wants to go back to the Sovjet Union situation. He admires Stalin and he admires what the Sovjet Union was. Putting Ukraine back into the influence of Russia is what this is about, just as he has or wants to get the other former Sovjet Union parts into the influence of Russia. He has used a lot of other rubbish excuses for attacking Ukraine as well.
NATO has rejected requests of Ukraine to become a member of the NATO, but will obviously say that it is non of Russia's business to influence who is or who is not becoming part of NATO.

 

[Redglyph]

To bring the thread back on topic, another message from ROCKFISH, the devs behind Everspace 2. Nice of them There's a good relationship in the gaming community, as always, at least at the indie level.

Important Message to our Community

Spoiler

Greetings, pilots,

CEO and 1st communication officer of ROCKFISH Games here with an important message to our community.

Like pretty much everyone in the world, we’re also shocked by the Russian army invading the sovereign state of Ukraine; bombing cities, and killing civilians including children—there’s absolutely no excuse for such an aggressive ambush.

Now, we have lots of dear friends in both countries, and we know from our hearts that the vast majority of Russians don’t want this war and were as surprised as we were. We have seen Russian citizens going onto the streets to protest against the war, risking fierce consequences from the authorities while Ukrainians risk their lives to fight for democracy and freedom against a massive invading military force.

With Ukraine so close to us and refugees pouring into Poland, Germany, and other neighboring countries, we wanted to help. As first measures from a self-funded 22 dev indie team, we donated 10,000 EUR to the International Committee of the Red Cross and joined the Help Ukraine Gamedev Initiative: We have begun retrofitting our studio in Hamburg, so we can accommodate up to 20 war refugees and provide for their daily needs. We will also join upcoming game bundles organized by various initiatives to further donate to humanitarian organizations to help the suffering Ukrainian people.

We won’t pull any of our games from stores, change prices, or ban players from Russia and Belarus (all our games on Steam and GOG are DRM free, the Russian Ruble is crashing hard, and certain regional payments are blocked anyway). However, we will withhold the announced Russian translation for EVERSPACE 2 until a ceasefire and peace talks begin.

We understand that this would inevitably cause quite a heated debate in the comments, but especially as a German studio knowing from our very own country's dark history, we cannot stay silent and continue with business as usual. We want to send a clear and strong message to our entire community that what the Russian government is doing is a horrible, horrible mistake. Our hearts and thoughts go out to the people of Ukraine.

Hope to see y’all in a better world tomorrow, ���� ����
Michael and your dedicated ROCKFISH Games Team

 

[Myrthos]

To bring the thread back on topic...

Good point