Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Boss Fights Were Outsourced

[sakichop]

Apparently my opinions on this are different than others'. I'm fine with that. Why everyone wants me to pin down my exact thoughts on RPG is a bit of a mystery, as I've said over and over that it is partially an RPG. My larger point is that the game is kind of cheesy overall… The writing, the character models, the voice work, the gimmicky human sized "air vents" all over the place… and it takes itself so, so seriously. Comes across like a middling Canadian TV show. No one wants to bring any of that up, apparently.

maybe no one wants to bring that up because it has nothing to do with whether the game is good or not imo at least. For me gameplay and combat are #1 and I think dxhr is pretty good in those area's. If a game has good gameplay and combat but everything you listed isn't very good I can still happily play it. (toee for example). If a game has bad gameplay and combat then no matter how good the things you listed are I will lose interest immediately. (da2 for example) If a game is no fun it dosen't matter how good the fluff is, again imo.

As for dxhr its more fps than rpg imo. That doesn't mean it's bad. It's good I wouldn't say game of the year though. I really like the stealth mechanics and the cover shooting. I don't play many fps though so maybe that's becoming more of prevalent in the genre and i'm just not aware.

Other than the boss fight's my main gripe would be that the city's feel more like mazes than big city's. If I need to go somewhere thats a few blocks away typically I can't just go there by following the streets you get blocked off. So instead of just going down the street and around the block I have to go in the sewer, out to a fire escape, punch through a wall and go through a vent and then i'm there. I appreciate that that route's any option, but just walking around the block should be an option too. It just feels like running through a maze rather than a big city.

I also never understood people bashing voice acting. Maybe because I grew up reading all my games i'm thankful for any voice acting. Really my 9 year old son could read all the parts and i'd still take that over reading it myself.

 

[DoctorNarrative]

Not only is this about "what is an RPG" but its also about at what point a game is an RPG hybrid and at what point a game is just a shooter with RPG elements.

In the end though labels don't really matter to me, and DX:HR is an awesome game.

 

[Nerevarine]

I don't want to get involved in the argument (regardless of how absolutely bio-biased Ovenall is, with his negativity crusade against every game that isn't made by Bioware ), but all I can add is this: I am about halfway through playing Human Revolution, and it is an absolutely fantastic game. Is it as good as the original? No, thanks to a few issues that hinder it compared to the Deus Ex 1, such as the silly out of place boss fights and smaller, less open levels. But really, do these issues prevent it from being a really solid game? For me, the answer is an emphatic no. This game is incredibly engrossing, even if it does have a few noticeable flaws. I will never understand why some people seem to go out of their way to nitpick what is wrong with a game, rather than appreciate the elements that the developers got right, and while this game obviously isn't perfect, DE: HR got a lot of important things right.

Some people may claim that it is not a "real RPG," but I would disagree. Much like the original Deus Ex, the player is given the freedom to complete objectives in whatever manner they see fit, and this freedom is highly enjoyable and much more flexible than most RPGs, or any game for that matter. The story and presentation are also very immersive, reminding me of the feeling I got from the atmosphere of Vampire: Bloodlines. Another element that is reminiscent of Bloodlines is the story-telling quality of the side-quests, along with the multiple endings for said side-quests and player-choice for the main quest. For me, DE:HR feels like a cross between Deus Ex and Vampire: Bloodlines, and even if it falls short when directly compared to those classics, any game that can even remotely give me the slightest feel of those games is incredibly rare and impressive.

At the end of the day, DE:HR is far from the most "hardcore" RPG, but does it really matter? The first Deus Ex wasn't a "hardcore" RPG. Neither was System Shock. Or Vampire: Bloodlines. Or the Gothic series… If you don't like the sort of experience that DE:HR offers, I am inclined to believe that you simply don't like video games, or happen to be very close-minded and one-dimensional about the games you enjoy. This type of game comes around very rarely, so it is best to just focus on what makes it enjoyable instead of nitpicking it to death. Labels are unimportant; DE: HR is a very enjoyable game to play, and that is what is important.

 

[DArtagnan]

Still stuck at this point….

Ovenall doesn't think it's an RPG - and that's his right. He thinks it's important to constantly bring that up - that's his right.

But, why oh why, must we dwell on things so pointlessly subjective?

Most of us agree it's a fantastic game - and I'm just happy we got it into our hands at this point - where such a game is almost unheard of in the AAA segment.

The boss fights were crappy, we can also agree on that. They didn't bother me much, as I think they were very easy and they didn't nullify the powers you'd selected - which I appreciated.

Now we learn it's a suit decision, and so I'm even more inclined to be forgiving towards the developers.

Usually, the suit-decisions dominate the entire game with blue-print streamlined "experiences" with almost no soul like DA2 or ME2.

Finally, we got a true AAA game made from the hearts of the developers. Furthermore, it seems to be a financial success.

That's more than what I'd dared to hope for a few years ago.

 

[Couchpotato]

Still stuck at this point….

Ovenall doesn't think it's an RPG - and that's his right. He thinks it's important to constantly bring that up - that's his right.

But, why oh why, must we dwell on things so pointlessly subjective?

Most of us agree it's a fantastic game - and I'm just happy we got it into our hands at this point - where such a game is almost unheard of in the AAA segment.

The boss fights were crappy, we can also agree on that. They didn't bother me much, as I think they were very easy and they didn't nullify the powers you'd selected - which I appreciated.

Now we learn it's a suit decision, and so I'm even more inclined to be forgiving towards the developers.

Usually, the suit-decisions dominate the entire game with blue-print streamlined "experiences" with almost no soul like DA2 or ME2.

Finally, we got a true AAA game made from the hearts of the developers. Furthermore, it seems to be a financial success.

That's more than what I'd dared to hope for a few years ago.

Agreed now they probably can and will make more. Hopefully the next one is better. Not just a sequel cash grab like other sequels.

 

[joxer]

Jesus Christ I'm here again to say I'm utterly disappointed, angry, mad whatever.
I'm on the mission to find Sandoval, after I've solved the sidequest to find the bomb (under the police station). I got nailed and tried to load quicksave and two autosaves. And I can't. Loading hits a loop and never resolves it. I've let one of loads run and went for a coffee, when I got back home in an hour, the game was still "loading". Other previous saves work but are from hours ago. The most recent save I can load is the fight againt the boss#2. Man…
I'm aware the game is relatively new, I'm aware games have bugs and sometimes those are critical bugs that prevent you from moving forward… But corrupt savegames is something that should have been patched already I can't get over it. Even after I was prepared to add some more points to the game (because of interesting subquests and spectacular fall from the roofs) I'm now saying again - this is not GOTY. I'm really, really disappointed.

EDIT:
I went to official forum and I'm not alone with the problem, this is exactly what's happening to me and was posted 4 days ago:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=122006

And I'm "so happy" as there is no answer on it yet. Although a forum member there provided them his savegames.
Where's the poll "which game surprised you like Ultima Bugscension did"?

 

[Ovenall]

I have said more than once in this thread that Deus Ex is partially an RPG. Aparently some people aren't even bothering to read what I wrote.

Even people on this thread who are fans of the game are claiming it's not much of an RPG. They are agreeing with me. Where we don't agree is that I think it's kind of cheesy overall and they don't. For some reason, some people are hammering me over and over on what I think a "proper" or real RPG is. Again, I think Deus Ex is sort of an RPG. But mostly an action first person shooter/stealth game.

I don't know why people are now bringing up Bioware in relation to me here.

As for why we're discussing subjective views of games: What the hell are we supposed to do here? Discuss purely objective aspects of the game, such as how it's coded, the colors of the logos, its marketing campaign, etc? A large part of the point of this site is to discuss subjective opinions about CRPGs. If you don't get that, you need to go look up the definitions of subjective and objective.

 

[Drithius]

DE:HR is more of an rpg, imo, than say, Diablo II. Less an RPG than Ultima… Does it really matter the degree to which a game is an RPG if its strengths and weakneses are discussed for what they are?

Additionally, there's an npc that dies midway in DE:HR for whom I genuinely felt a sense of loss. That's certainly more immersion and, arguably, 'role-playing' than I've felt in many a recent RPG w/ <insert explicit stats & fiery swords>.

On topic, aside from fighting the russian

Spoiler

with none of my augments and very few mines!@!@!

I actually enjoyed the boss fights - they were something different from crawling in vents and playing yet another hacking minigame.

 

[sakichop]

I have said more than once in this thread that Deus Ex is partially an RPG. Aparently some people aren't even bothering to read what I wrote.

Even people on this thread who are fans of the game are claiming it's not much of an RPG. They are agreeing with me. Where we don't agree is that I think it's kind of cheesy overall and they don't. For some reason, some people are hammering me over and over on what I think a "proper" or real RPG is. Again, I think Deus Ex is sort of an RPG. But mostly an action first person shooter/stealth game.

I don't know why people are now bringing up Bioware in relation to me here.

As for why we're discussing subjective views of games: What the hell are we supposed to do here? Discuss purely objective aspects of the game, such as how it's coded, the colors of the logos, its marketing campaign, etc? A large part of the point of this site is to discuss subjective opinions about CRPGs. If you don't get that, you need to go look up the definitions of subjective and objective.

Ok first off I'm one of the people that agree it's much more fps than rpg but don't really agree with your other views about the game.

You seem to be changing your mind through out this thread not sure if you believe it or are just tired of arguing. You are now saying you think it's partially an rpg.

In earlier posts and threads you were emphatic that it's not an rpg. you said deus ex is not an rpg and you were amused it's even covered here and your posting it to tell everyone it's not an rpg. That's pretty point blank if you ask me.

Given those posts and that fact you posting on a forum where most think it's an excellent rpg are you really surprised by the reaction? Or why people would want to know what you think an rpg is then?

As for the bioware comments I suspect it's because you've been a vocal supporter of da2 and bioware in other threads and it's thought of as pretty much crap around here. So for you to support da2 and bash dxhr I'm sure confuses some people.

But really you seem like a smart enough guy surely you already knew all this. You knew supporting da2 and bashing dxhr here would not be popular opinions. You are definitively entitled to those opinions but stand behind them and don't be surprised when people disagree.

 

[Ovenall]

It's sort of - partially - an RPG. Other aspects of the gameplay far outweigh the RPG aspects of it. Also, it's sort of cheesy and not very well put together artistically. That's my opinion. Is that pretty clear?

Since it seems like some people feel we need to rehash everyone's previous opinions on other games any time a popular game gets criticized, I'll just say that I liked DA2, but didn't think it was great. I enjoyed it, but won't ever play it again. It got boring towards the end and had lots of other problems (re-used areas and other things mentioned about one million times). I didn't like the way much of the loot was handled, and I had other problems with it as well. I liked DA:O quite a bit. I never got into KotOR. Tried a couple times and couldn't get very far. I didn't like it. I thought ME1 was only OK, but I really liked Mass Effect 2. Baldur's Gate 1&2 are two of my all time favorite games. NWN was a great idea badly executed. Never tried Jade Empire. There's probably other Bioware games that exist that I haven't mentioned because I haven't played them.

If the above makes me sound somehow unreasonable then I don't know what to say. I look at games individually and don't keep track of publishers and developers very closely.

I guess people take criticism of their pet games pretty hard some times. I don't see why critical opinions on games seems out of bounds for some games, for some people.

 

[Thrasher]

In the end though labels don't really matter to me, and DX:HR is an awesome game.

Don't use that word, if you want us to take you seriously.

 

[Nerevarine]

I guess people take criticism of their pet games pretty hard some times. I don't see why critical opinions on games seems out of bounds for some games, for some people.

You're right, no game should be placed in an "anti-criticism bubble," but it's the way you present your criticism that is off-putting, at least for me. When you start comparing DE:HR to freakin' Mario Bros., people are going to get defensive because you are being an instigator at that point, rather than offering any meaningful criticism of the game.

Aside from that, announcing that DE:HR isn't a "real RPG" in every DE thread gets kind of old. We've been through this discussion over and over, and there will never be a set-in-stone definition. For some people, RPG means more than just stat-building, leveling up, and turn-based combat, and instead focus on meaningful choice and consequence and player freedom to play the game in the manner that they see fit. For others, the numbers and character-building is absolutely critical for the experience. Some people just don't care about trying to label a game to death, and would rather keep an open-mind and judge it by how engaging and enjoyable the overall experience is.

 

[Thrasher]

Ovenall is basically trolling. You can see it in his repeated posts and choice of language.

I can respect his dislike of the game, but not his baiting.

 

[Ovenall]

The Mario Brothers thing was an example of reductio ad absurdum. I was making a bit of a joke saying that if you define what is an RPG down enough, anything can be an RPG. I was not "comparing deus ex to mario brothers"

I'm not trolling either. This whole thread snowballed when I ***gasp*** had the temerity to call deus ex over-rated.


The horror…..

 

[DArtagnan]

I'm not trolling either. This whole thread snowballed when I ***gasp*** had the temerity to call deus ex over-rated.

For the first time too

Come on Ovenall... It's pretty obvious to everyone that you're on a crusade against the game.

 

[Ovenall]

If you read what I said in the previous thread about DEx (I've only commented about this game in 2 different threads, ever, by the way) I said it was a competent action game. I've never trashed it outright. If you want to play a competent FPS/stealth game, then fine. DEx is for you, as long as you're willing to overlook the cheese factor.

 

[DArtagnan]

It's not what you're saying, but how and how often you're saying them.

 

[Couchpotato]

Good good let the flame war begin.

I can use the warmth with the cold rainy days lately. The rpg label should just be shelved. To many companies just slap it on to lure the rpg players. Still I loved the game for what is not what its labeled as.

 

[BillSeurer]

Additionally, there's an npc that dies midway in DE:HR for whom I genuinely felt a sense of loss. That's certainly more immersion and, arguably, 'role-playing' than I've felt in many a recent RPG w/ <insert explicit stats & fiery swords>.

Actually, you can save her. But it is quite creepy when you find her body later if you don't.

 

[Drithius]

Oh you could? Damn =( And yes, kind of creepy and most definitely sad - I wanted to haul her out of there.