PC gaming's future

Hasn't the price of video games for PC and consoles been relatively consistent? I remember paying 50 USD+tax for Baldur's Gate back in 1998 when it came out. I just purchased ...uh... NOT the Sims 3, I swear, for the same price in 2009. Doesn't that mean that even if they sell video games at 60 dollars a pop, it's actually costing us less to buy them then it did five, ten, fifteen, etc years ago?

I remember SNES games costing something like 65 or 70 dollars.
 
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A last point about that LucasArts thing :

They have announced a new Star Wars Clone Wars - themed game.
On their web site stands this:

Platforms: Xbox 360, Playstation 3, Playstation 2, PSP, Wii, Nintendo DS, PC

The Indy Jones 2 game isn't even scheduled for PC ... The next Star Wars Battlefront game either ...

The only pro point is the new MI remake ...
http://www.starwars.com/games/videogames/news20090601.html
 
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@Rithrandil What your forgetting is what many companies rely on - if it's not in front of your face people don't notice.

Take a can of baked beans, they are still in the same size can but are now 14oz instead of 16oz. Or what about things that used to have a dozen of something and now have 10, or 8 items? Candy used to be sold by 1/4lb (4 oz), now it's sold per 100 grams, which is 3.4 oz! So you can easilylook at prices and think their the same,when you are not paying the same!

Now onto gaming: You gave the example of Baldur's Gate, but didn't that game come in a big box with a 100 page manual and map? Won't Sims 3 come in a DVD case with 20 page manual and an online manual/pdf manual?

Another way to look at it - how much gameplay was in Baldur's Gate? 100 hours? What about shooters back at the same time? Usually 50-60missions and 30-40 hours of gameplay. Do you remember back then a single game with less than 15 hours of gameplay? No,because there wasn't any. Compare that with recent years. Bioshock - 15 hours, Dreamfall - 12 hours., Dead Space - 12 hours COD4 - 10 hours, probably the most expensive - episodic gaming - HL2 EP1 was only $20, but it only had 5 hours gameplay. So on a dollar for dollar basis, if HL2 EP1 was a 30 hour game like in the late 90's, it would cost $120!

Finally, something you cannot quantify, and that is gameplay replayability. I believe that games pre, say 2003, were generally more full of content and therefore gameplay and replayability than what we started getting after 2003. That's not to say there weren't crappy games pre 2003 and no good games after, just that generally, as corporate ideals took over and accountants decided on what games would be released, gaming became more shallow.

I would just say of the year Baldur's Gate was released - 1998 - with games like Starcraft, Half Life, Grim Fandango, Thief the Dark Project, Unreal and others all being released in that one year, probably beats by a mile any gaming year since. And certainly in the year of Sims 3, we are likely to not have one classic game released.

Gamespot, in 2008, reviewed just 52 PC games. The average review score was 69.5%. Does that sound like good value for money? The December 1998 edition of Computer Gaming World, by comparison, had 48 reviews of PC games. 48 reviews in one month versus 52 in a year.

On so many levels, I would rather go back to my $50 1995-1998 games than I do go back to my 2005-2008 $50 games.
 
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@Rithrandil What your forgetting is what many companies rely on - if it's not in front of your face people don't notice.

Take a can of baked beans, they are still in the same size can but are now 14oz instead of 16oz. Or what about things that used to have a dozen of something and now have 10, or 8 items? Candy used to be sold by 1/4lb (4 oz), now it's sold per 100 grams, which is 3.4 oz! So you can easilylook at prices and think their the same,when you are not paying the same!
Except those prices also have increased. Candy bars used to be a nickle, now they're 1.50. Cans of soda used to be 25 cents when I was a kid, now they're over a dollar.

Now onto gaming: You gave the example of Baldur's Gate, but didn't that game come in a big box with a 100 page manual and map? Won't Sims 3 come in a DVD case with 20 page manual and an online manual/pdf manual?
Yes, but that's a different type of game. What are they going to pack in with Sims 3? I like all those extras but they are not necessarily part of "the game".

Another way to look at it - how much gameplay was in Baldur's Gate? 100 hours?
I dunno, for me about 15 to 20, without skipping much.

What about shooters back at the same time? Usually 50-60missions and 30-40 hours of gameplay.
30-40 hours of gameplay in a shooter? What games are we talking about here? Halflife came out then and it was nowhere near that long.

Do you remember back then a single game with less than 15 hours of gameplay?
Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1998_video_games I'm sure most of those fall into that category.

No,because there wasn't any. Compare that with recent years. Bioshock - 15 hours, Dreamfall - 12 hours., Dead Space - 12 hours COD4 - 10 hours, probably the most expensive - episodic gaming - HL2 EP1 was only $20, but it only had 5 hours gameplay. So on a dollar for dollar basis, if HL2 EP1 was a 30 hour game like in the late 90's, it would cost $120!
Except games have never been sold on a dollar-per-hour gameplay cost formulation.

Finally, something you cannot quantify, and that is gameplay replayability. I believe that games pre, say 2003, were generally more full of content and therefore gameplay and replayability than what we started getting after 2003.
Possibly, but that is a matter of personal opinion and not really verifiable. There's also probably a bit of nostalgia in there as well.

That's not to say there weren't crappy games pre 2003 and no good games after, just that generally, as corporate ideals took over and accountants decided on what games would be released, gaming became more shallow.
You also have far more games being made today and the user base has expanded. The "core gamer" is no longer the main target. If you made a game today with mid/late 90's sensibilities mixed with 2009 technology it probably wouldn't sell well.

I would just say of the year Baldur's Gate was released - 1998 - with games like Starcraft, Half Life, Grim Fandango, Thief the Dark Project, Unreal and others all being released in that one year, probably beats by a mile any gaming year since. And certainly in the year of Sims 3, we are likely to not have one classic game released.
Classic by whose definition? This is all subjective, remember, and if we want to go by pure sales, numbers, reviews, and enjoyment then the Sims 3 will be a classic. The Sims 1 and 2 were.

Gamespot, in 2008, reviewed just 52 PC games. The average review score was 69.5%. Does that sound like good value for money?
No, but I don't use gamestop to make my purchases. If they reviewed 498 games and gave them an average review of 95.3% would you be happy?

The December 1998 edition of Computer Gaming World, by comparison, had 48 reviews of PC games. 48 reviews in one month versus 52 in a year.

On so many levels, I would rather go back to my $50 1995-1998 games than I do go back to my 2005-2008 $50 games.
You mean your 65.76 dollar 1995-1998 game and your $50 2005-2008 game. Adjusting for inflation and all. The problem is you're comparing classics with average for today. That's like someone saying modern filmmaking is crap and bemoaning the lack of "great movies" because he's comparing everything to the Godfather II.
 
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Good points,but the link you gave were for console and PC and C64, so hard to tell.

The Sims is a one off. Call it a classic series, a hit series, anything you want, but just like WoW, they are one off's and cannot compare with the market as a whole. Just likein the record business, The Beatles are a one off and you cannot compare the record industry to them alone. I could see no PC gaming market at all, but The Sims still being released and being sold all alone on the shelf in Walmart or Tesco's!

And among PC gamers, I cannot believe there would be more than 1% that would say Half Life and Starcraft and Grim Fandango, etc were not classics. Look at all the current hype over Starcraft 2 for example!

You've argued my points but I don't think you I have come up with a single point to show PC gaming has a bright future - one Sims doesn't make a gaming summer.
 
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Good points,but the link you gave were for console and PC and C64, so hard to tell.
Couldn't find a solely "PC games of 98" list, but I'm sure I could without much difficulty. But my point is you're talking about the "classic" outliers. No one here is talking about Dumb PC Game #4342 because none of us probably care to remember it. You can't compare The Godfather II with (say) Transformers and write off the movie industry as having a horrible future. Classics are few and far between in any medium.

The Sims is a one off. Call it a classic series, a hit series, anything you want, but just like WoW, they are one off's and cannot compare with the market as a whole. Just likein the record business, The Beatles are a one off and you cannot compare the record industry to them alone. I could see no PC gaming market at all, but The Sims still being released and being sold all alone on the shelf in Walmart or Tesco's!
But aren't you doing that? Most of the games you are listing are 'classics'. Our medium is young enough that a good deal of the classics are going to be front loaded. AFAIK you didn't list one 'average' game.

And among PC gamers, I cannot believe there would be more than 1% that would say Half Life and Starcraft and Grim Fandango, etc were not classics. Look at all the current hype over Starcraft 2 for example!
My point is you can't really say that we're not likely to have some classic released this year. And it may be a classic in MANY people's minds, but not yours. That was my point - I don't consider (to use console gaming as an example as its easier to make this point) FF7 a good game at all. I hate it and would send every copy into the sun if I could. Yet FF7 is somehow regarded as this great classic storytelling Console RPG.

For all I know Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2 or Alpha Protocol may be a 'classic'. Hearts of Iron 3 may/will probably be a classic, but I don't think I'd get much support for that since I don't know how many Paradoxians there are here.

You've argued my points but I don't think you I have come up with a single point to show PC gaming has a bright future - one Sims doesn't make a gaming summer.
Not my goal, my main point was the price of computer games has actually not only stayed consistent but has gone down since the 90's. You may argue we're not getting the same quality but we're paying 16-17 bucks less per game at the same time. I also can't really show that PC gaming has a bright future, the same way you can't honestly show it doesn't have one, unless you post data showing that the current crop of PC developers are all leaving and/or you have access to a time machine.

Certain companies have left the playing field, like Lucas Arts, but that's opening up space for new companies to come in and run an insurgency to become well-known game makers. Look at Tell Tale Games. They're single-handedly reviving and picking up the torch for the adventure games market.
 
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Considering that PC gaming is the only non-Nintendo segment that is actually growing, Iwould say that it is you who needs to prove something, UK_John ;)

... oh, and while RPG's were generally 60+ hours a decade ago, I would rate shooters as ~20+ hours, compared to current <8 hours. Call of Duty 4 & 5 *combined* were less than 10 ... but folks play them for the MP.
 
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@txa1265

PC gaming is growing only if you count flash games and casual games for little Joey and the family. These $10 games are not going to mainatain anything like the market we had even 3 years ago, let alone 10 years ago, they won't generate the cash!

If modern PC gaming is doing so well and growing so well how come DOSBox has had 10 million plus downloads? How comes the ebay retro section has grown 300% in 2 years according to ebay? How comes even Microsoft admits that they have had more downloads of their Virtual PC (that allows for a simulated PC within your PC running older OS's like Win98) to home PC's than sold to businesses? How come one of the major uses for achievement points on the consoles is to download retro 8 and 16 bit games?

You cannot tell me current PC gaming is so well liked if there is such a huge movement to retro gaming that is growing exponentially!
 
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@txa1265

PC gaming is growing only if you count flash games and casual games for little Joey and the family. These $10 games are not going to mainatain anything like the market we had even 3 years ago, let alone 10 years ago, they won't generate the cash!

If modern PC gaming is doing so well and growing so well how come DOSBox has had 10 million plus downloads? How comes the ebay retro section has grown 300% in 2 years according to ebay? How comes even Microsoft admits that they have had more downloads of their Virtual PC (that allows for a simulated PC within your PC running older OS's like Win98) to home PC's than sold to businesses? How come one of the major uses for achievement points on the consoles is to download retro 8 and 16 bit games?

You cannot tell me current PC gaming is so well liked if there is such a huge movement to retro gaming that is growing exponentially!
So because the Criterion Collection exists current movies aren't well liked? Because people like to collect vinyl means cds are failing? Or the fact that people listen to classic rock doesn't mean that modern music is well liked?

Some people like to play older games. Doesn't mean they don't like new ones, too.
 
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You have to add up everything I said. The number of PC game releases have gone down, hence fewer reviews, this means less companies believe PC games will sell well, or know they haven't sold well recently, now add in those lower release numbers and lower sales of today and add what I said about retro growing and and you have a 'one replacing another' not 'one in addition to the other'.
 
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You have to add up everything I said. The number of PC game releases have gone down, hence fewer reviews, this means less companies believe PC games will sell well, or know they haven't sold well recently, now add in those lower release numbers and lower sales of today and add what I said about retro growing and and you have a 'one replacing another' not 'one in addition to the other'.

And I don't see it as a problem. Our medium is still finding its balance between PCs and consoles. Am I happy with where PC gaming is now? No, but I don't think it's doom and gloom and the apocalypse. I've been reading about PC gaming is dead every year since like 1998 and it hasn't happened yet, and I still enjoy more PC games than console games. We may not be living in the 'golden age' anymore, but that doesn't mean that for some reason 2011-2015 may be the second golden age renaissance of gaming. Trends you are talking about are not set in stone and are subject to change. It's also really cheap to do retro gaming as opposed to PC gaming.
 
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You cannot tell me current PC gaming is so well liked if there is such a huge movement to retro gaming that is growing exponentially!

That is just one of the stupidest things I have ever read - because if you say that then you MUST, absolutely MUST also say that console gaming is dying, that the X360, PS3, and Wii are all on the verge of collapse worse than the PC.

Why?

Because XBLA, PSN and Wii VC are all thriving.

I get that you are absolutely driven to support your assertion that PC gaming is dying, but the facts don't back you up. Even those who say there are no good RPG's anymore have reality staring them in the face.

Sorry for the rant , you can return to your regularly scheduled program.
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It was also the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of SNES games retailed for $49.99.

Some were. Mega Man X was around 60 or 65, Joe and Mac was close to 75 or 80, etc. FF3/6 was expensive as well. There wasn't a hard-and-fast price like 49.99 or 59.99 like most games are today. The prices jumped upwards about 10 dollars during the middle years of its system life span for some reason and then went back down again.

I'm trying to find a list of prices for games at retail for SNES but not having any luck - I know I got Mortal Kombat for 50 but I remember a good deal of my games being above the 60 dollar mark.
 
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I remember paying $60 for some sports game for my brother in law ...
 
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Some were. Mega Man X was around 60 or 65, Joe and Mac was close to 75 or 80, etc. FF3/6 was expensive as well. There wasn't a hard-and-fast price like 49.99 or 59.99 like most games are today. The prices jumped upwards about 10 dollars during the middle years of its system life span for some reason and then went back down again.

I'm trying to find a list of prices for games at retail for SNES but not having any luck - I know I got Mortal Kombat for 50 but I remember a good deal of my games being above the 60 dollar mark.


Except there *was* a somewhat common price, just like today, and it was $49.99. You don't need to look up anything, I worked in the electronics section of the local Kmart when I was a teen, and I quite remember what those games cost for the most part.
 
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Except there *was* a somewhat common price, just like today, and it was $49.99. You don't need to look up anything, I worked in the electronics section of the local Kmart when I was a teen, and I quite remember what those games cost for the most part.

Ah - well, there were enough games that went above this (for whatever reason) that the average price was not as 'average' as it is today - and from what I can tell there was no discernible reason for the prices fluctuating higher. A good deal of the games in my SNES library cost more than the 49.99 price point - CT, FF3/6, Mega Man X, etc. But anyways, my main point was that games cost less today then they did back then. Even assuming a baseline of 49.99 back in the SNES days (so early/mid 90's) we're still talking about (adjusted for inflation) something like 65-75 in 2008/2009 dollars.
 
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... JUst picked up a link to an interesting article about 3D graphics :
http://www.gamestar.de/specials/reports/1956933/sackgasse_3d_grafik.html
It is in German language, though. And it is only about the graphics differences between consoles & PCs.
The article says basically that the costs have risen up enormously in general for 3D graphics, and that there won't be much progression within the next few years. The next "technology jump" is estimated for direktx 11.
 
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