Raven's Cry - Removed From Steam...Again

[rune_74]

Never heard of Reality Pump??? You've played a game and tried to defend it to the death for two years yet not knowing its developer?????? Topware is the PUB.LI.SHER of the game. Alright? Should I buy you some hearing aids? A PUB-LI-SHER. Just like Dragon Age being developed by Bioware and published by EA makes it a Bioware RPG, not an EA RPG, get it? Sure, go ahead and pull a "Never heard of Bioware, I thought Dragon Age is EA's sacred property". Witcher 2 was published by 1C in Russia--doesn't make it a Russian RPG; it's published in the West by Atari--doesn't make it a US RPG. Get it????

Are you the worst kind of troll on the Internet or just tweeting out of your ass from a wheelchair at a sanitarium? No wonder all the comments ranging from childish to deranged keep coming out that way over the years.

Yeah, don't read the rest, I doubt you have the literacy to do so, so it wasn't for you to read anyway. It's a forum in case you haven't noticed after posting thousands of random derpy derp. Hide in your own little world a little longer.

Actually, it bioware is owned by EA so....it is an EA game for all intensive purposes.

 

[joxer]

Are you the worst kind of troll on the Internet or just tweeting out of your ass from a wheelchair at a sanitarium?

Trolling forums mastered, yes.
Try to pick another victim, I'm kinda dead horse beatin' bored.

 

[LordKane]

Actually, it bioware is owned by EA so….it is an EA game for all intensive purposes.

EA has an influence on this game, oft times a bad one for sure, but it's still a Bioware game, the design decisions are made by Bioware. The ideas coming out of the design phases were implemented by Bioware. EA just sells it. The intellectual property belongs to Bioware, rather than EA.

It's just like you go to Amazon to shop some Intel chips--you are still call them Intel CPU, not Amazon CPU. LOL.

Manchester City club is owned by some rich assholes from UAE, doesn't make it an UAE team--it's still an English team.

What logic is this?? And Raven's Cry for sure is not a German RPG. It wasn't made by German, it wasn't produced by German, or written primarily with German language in mind.

 

[rune_74]

EA has an influence on this game, oft times a bad one for sure, but it's still a Bioware game, the design decisions are made by Bioware. The ideas coming out of the design phases were implemented by Bioware. EA just sells it. The intellectual property belongs to Bioware, rather than EA.

It's just like you go to Amazon to shop some Intel chips--you are still call them Intel CPU, not Amazon CPU. LOL.

Manchester City club is owned by some rich assholes from UAE, doesn't make it an UAE team--it's still an English team.

What logic is this?? And Raven's Cry for sure is not a German RPG. It wasn't made by German, it wasn't produced by German, or written primarily with German language in mind.

Um no. Amazon doesn't own Intel chips, EA owns bioware....this isn't even the same at all...bioware is a subsection of EA now.

 

[LordKane]

Um no. Amazon doesn't own Intel chips, EA owns bioware….this isn't even the same at all…bioware is a subsection of EA now.

Likewise the Manchester City club is owned by a dude from UAE, but nobody is calling it a Arabian team.

Battlefield is a Swedish game rather than an American game, even though it's owned by EA. Come on, man. Is it that hard??? More spoon feeding required?

 

[rune_74]

Likewise the Manchester City club is owned by a dude from UAE, but nobody is calling it a Arabian team.

Battlefield is a Swedish game rather than an American game, even though it's owned by EA. Come on, man. Is it that hard??? More spoon feeding required?

EA calls the shots for Bioware. It's that simple. It isn't a separate entity anymore. It is a subsidiary for EA. Do you understand how game companies work?

It would be different if EA was just publishing then your point would be true.

I see we have attracted another.

 

[LordKane]

Trolling forums mastered, yes.
Try to pick another victim, I'm kinda dead horse beatin' bored.

Writing from a random gibberish generator? That explains a lot.

Somebody posted a news tidbit, you commented it with bunch of false statements and fallacies. When somebody responds with reasonable rebuttal by presenting cold hard facts, you read the first sentence and realized you got busted and obviously couldn't counter effectively. Instead you came up with something better by covering your eyes and ears, burying your head in the sand, repeating "I can't see, I can't hear" to yourself and believing "not reading the rest renders it a non-existent".

Some intense kindergarten or senile home stuffs. Cheers bro.

 

[LordKane]

EA calls the shots for Bioware. It's that simple. It isn't a separate entity anymore. It is a subsidiary for EA. Do you understand how game companies work?

It would be different if EA was just publishing then your point would be true.

I see we have attracted another.

So you would call Reality Pump a German company??? What's the problem????

Yeah I don't understand how "game companies work". Your parent company sends supervisors to sit down and review the progress periodically. Your leadership discusses and negotiates the milestones and deadlines with them. When there are some disputes about certain artistic directions, ultimately your designers and producers "call the shot", not them. EA doesn't hire designers and artists, they have lawyers and marketing specialists.

If by "calling the shot" you mean they can shut you down or cancel your project, then spot on. But they don't make every design decision, that's the studio's job, that's why they put down 800 million to acquire this bunch of people, otherwise their army of lawyers can "call the shot" and conjure some design and code out of their ass.

Even "EA Sports" and "EA Games" are subsidiary developers. EA doesn't develop the game, these developers do. Bethesda is owned by ZeniMax. Everybody calls the Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 and 4 Bethesda games, rather than ZeniMax games. Todd Howard got invited on stage to talk about the production of Skyrim, not the CEO of ZeniMax.

People are excited when Ken Levine talks about Bioshock on twitter, or when Kojima talks about Metal Gear Solid, as heads of the DEVELOPERS, not as the board chair of 2K or Konami, who owns them.

EA has bad influence over Bioware, for sure. But ultimately all the questionable design decisions and "mandatory multiplayer components (EA signature)" come from Bioware, and Bioware is responsible for all the backlash.

 

[Wisdom]

So you would call Reality Pump a German company??? What's the problem????

Yeah I don't understand how "game companies work". Your parent company sends supervisors to sit down and review the progress periodically. Your leadership discusses and negotiates the milestones and deadlines with them. When there are some disputes about certain artistic directions, ultimately your designers and producers "call the shot", not them. EA doesn't hire designers and artists, they have lawyers and marketing specialists.

If by "calling the shot" you mean they can shut you down or cancel your project, then spot on. But they don't make every design decision, that's the studio's job, that's why they put down 800 million to acquire this bunch of people, otherwise their army of lawyers can "call the shot" and conjure some design and code out of their ass.

Even "EA Sports" and "EA Games" are subsidiary developers. EA doesn't develop the game, these developers do. Bethesda is owned by ZeniMax. Everybody calls the Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 and 4 Bethesda games, rather than ZeniMax games. Todd Howard got invited on stage to talk about the production of Skyrim, not the CEO of ZeniMax.

People are excited when Ken Levine talks about Bioshock on twitter, or when Kojima talks about Metal Gear Solid, as heads of the DEVELOPERS, not as the board chair of 2K or Konami, who owns them.

EA has bad influence over Bioware, for sure. But ultimately all the questionable design decisions and "mandatory multiplayer components (EA signature)" come from Bioware, and Bioware is responsible for all the backlash.

This would be true in most publisher/developer relationships. However in EA/Bioware this is completely false.

Bioware is 100% totally and wholly owned by EA. The only reason they even call it a "division" is to promote this kind of discussion exactly. There is no boundaries, you can be told to work on any project for EA, the division is meaningless.
The paychecks all come from EA, its EA direct deposit. For all intents and purposes, Bioware doesn't exist.

This myth that has floated around since Origin & Bioware and every other brand that was purchased, that your dear developers could create a perfect game if not for the evil EA overlords… is exactly that. A myth.



*source* first hand knowledge.

 

[Couchpotato]

This would be true in most publisher/developer relationships. However in EA/Bioware this is completely false.

Bioware is 100% totally and wholly owned by EA. The only reason they even call it a "division" is to promote this kind of discussion exactly. There is no boundaries, you can be told to work on any project for EA, the division is meaningless.
The paychecks all come from EA, its EA direct deposit. For all intents and purposes, Bioware doesn't exist.

*source* first hand knowledge.

Yes once you're acquired or taken over by EA you own nothing anymore.

(Ubisoft is another example of how this works)

Just for more laughs since this thread is getting Overheated.

 

[rune_74]

So you would call Reality Pump a German company??? What's the problem????

Yeah I don't understand how "game companies work". Your parent company sends supervisors to sit down and review the progress periodically. Your leadership discusses and negotiates the milestones and deadlines with them. When there are some disputes about certain artistic directions, ultimately your designers and producers "call the shot", not them. EA doesn't hire designers and artists, they have lawyers and marketing specialists.

If by "calling the shot" you mean they can shut you down or cancel your project, then spot on. But they don't make every design decision, that's the studio's job, that's why they put down 800 million to acquire this bunch of people, otherwise their army of lawyers can "call the shot" and conjure some design and code out of their ass.

Even "EA Sports" and "EA Games" are subsidiary developers. EA doesn't develop the game, these developers do. Bethesda is owned by ZeniMax. Everybody calls the Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 and 4 Bethesda games, rather than ZeniMax games. Todd Howard got invited on stage to talk about the production of Skyrim, not the CEO of ZeniMax.

People are excited when Ken Levine talks about Bioshock on twitter, or when Kojima talks about Metal Gear Solid, as heads of the DEVELOPERS, not as the board chair of 2K or Konami, who owns them.

EA has bad influence over Bioware, for sure. But ultimately all the questionable design decisions and "mandatory multiplayer components (EA signature)" come from Bioware, and Bioware is responsible for all the backlash.

I think it's safe to say this isn't the way it works as proven by others in this thread....I honestly don't know how this got to this point.

 

[LordKane]

This would be true in most publisher/developer relationships. However in EA/Bioware this is completely false.

Bioware is 100% totally and wholly owned by EA. The only reason they even call it a "division" is to promote this kind of discussion exactly. There is no boundaries, you can be told to work on any project for EA, the division is meaningless.
The paychecks all come from EA, its EA direct deposit. For all intents and purposes, Bioware doesn't exist.

This myth that has floated around since Origin & Bioware and every other brand that was purchased, that your dear developers could create a perfect game if not for the evil EA overlords… is exactly that. A myth.



*source* first hand knowledge.

First of all, I appreciate an Intellectual debate with arguments backed by facts. This concept of "ownage" is a legal and financial term. Now let's discuss the internal human resource structure of EA and Bioware. Up to this point, Bioware still handle the recruitment at their own branches Bioware Edmonton, Bioware Austin, etc. Yeah I'm with you there about the payroll being controlled by EA, and the big decisions like opening or closing a branch of Bioware being made partially or wholly by EA. But EA isn't gonna interview these candidates, they don't post the openings specific role duties (despite the fact that they may control the number of openings). The kinds of talent acquired are explicitly dominated by Bioware alone, barring the instances where they are told to have a branch working on a MMO RTS or MOBA (C&C General 2 anyone?) so they'll have to acquire some talents based on those requirements. But beyond that all the creative decisions are made ultimately at Bioware. Otherwise EA can give these IP to any of its 30 or so studios--why not have DICE work on it, they have more knowledge about Glacier Engine which DA:I is based on. Bioware being working on it means EA still trust their artistic (debatable) visions.

My point is being the evil corp EA has been perceived as, they do not possess the creative capacity to directly manipulate any details regarding design and implementations. Whatever differences or frictions come out of these review scrum meetings involving Bioware and the pawns sent by their EA overlords, the instructions/requirements/comments are gonna be pretty vague and general, such as "we won't publish a game without any multi-player components in it, leader boards, half-assed co-op, trading cards games, I don't care, just give the players some multi-player experience, preferably where micro-transactions can be exploited", or "the animations and visual designs should be more exciting and coherent to our pop culture". They don't have the personnel to "call the shot" on details and implementation specifics like "having mandatory online class-based horde mode co-op in which the performance impact the outcome of your single-player games", or "an awesome button to loot, to attack, to make automated responses on the dialog wheel with emo icons, to turn enemy into red paste, to uninstall the game, blabla". These specifics still come from the dudes working at Bioware, and they are responsible for these decisions for better or worse. I never said they would make perfect games without the evil of EA, the products came before the acquisition can hardly be called perfect, but true, they at least they retain more artistic integrity. Saying "Oh Bioware/Origin was no more the day they became part of EA" is being cynical, and we all love doing that =D. But it's hardly the truth in technical terms, is it?

Back to the TopWare/Reality Pump issue, I think TopWare screwed over the latter for sure. They dump a irredeemable and abandoned project onto the poor Polish developer, slap on a deadline and expect to make some final quick cash grab before going down. Oh yeah, I bet TopWare was having financial difficulties by the time they asked Reality Pump to take over and they were fully aware nothing good can come out of this game. TopWare did it again later last year to make a second clumsy attempt of even more desperate money grubbing schemes. Their intention was crystal clear. I don't know why somebody can defend this game thinking it's a German-RPG. Made in Germany, this is not. Support franchises developed by German studios like Risen and Drakensang, dude, "they real, and they are spectacular". On the other hand, Raven's Cry doesn't even qualify as a bad game like Legend of Dawn, Realm of Arkania HD or Sacred 3. Those are bad, but they are still games. This Raven's Cry is just like a snuff film, a abomination from an honest Polish studio badly abused by their German publisher "owner". Disregarding all these facts and dead setting on a quest to defend it by accusing everyone else a German hater is just...below being cringeworthy.

Hah, looks like this debate has hit some serious heat at Just Cause level. Let's cool it down. Like I said, I appreciate intellectual debates with sane critique backed by facts, not personally attacks like "XXX knows nothing about game industry" or "XXX is a German hater".

 

[LordKane]

*source* first hand knowledge.

Uhh, so "first hand knowledge" means it comes directly from you yourself, which indicates you are an employee/ex-employee of Bioware?

I don't know about the Bioware (or according to you: the fake studio/cover-up that's Bioware only by name nowadays), I work at a multi-billion dollar software company. This division I'm with came from a company acquired, so now the board sits with the leadership of our division once in a while for directions. Still when something unfavorable happens, it is who are in charge of the design and implementation HERE are held responsible, even though the decisions must have gone through some extended reviews with the executive board previously. It's hard to imagine that, the persons supposed to be responsible would say: "hey, don't look at me. XXX is no more the day we merge with XXX. Blame the fat dudes sitting in the board room and private jets, they are the ones that call the shot".

Isn't that…kind of unprofessional?

 

[Stingray]

Reality Pump is TopWare, just as BioWare is EA. Same company, just with a particular office ("studio" in gaming parlance) being given its own name.

All this garbage just because Joxer mistakenly thought a game was developed inside Germany instead of inside Poland?

 

[Capt. Huggy Face]

This would be a shame, if true. I'm not at all convinced, however, by that weak-ass accusation posted on the Web that people mistakenly call journalism. But it might be true nonetheless. Don't know.

I quite liked Gorky 17 (Topware publisher) and the original Two Worlds (Reality Pump dev). The sequel, not so much. I don't know anything about Raven's Cry, but Two Worlds got huge amounts of criticism because it wasn't as polished as similar games. People called it one of the worst games ever, simply because of cutscenes with awkward English translations (one of its charms, if you ask me.) It also had a much better character-development system than similar games.

While I'm certainly not a fan of deception like this, if true, I think it would be a shame if the stupid, desperate actions of a few people on a sinking ship helped the ship sink faster. I'd like to see any company that published games like Gorky 17 and Jagged Alliance 2 stick around a while longer.

 

[LordKane]

Reality Pump is TopWare, just as BioWare is EA. Same company, just with a particular office ("studio" in gaming parlance) being given its own name.

All this garbage just because Joxer mistakenly thought a game was developed inside Germany instead of inside Poland?

Stating a fact and backing arguments with facts are garbage.
Presenting a bunch of false statements and fallacies, refusing to correct one's self, calling whoever have different opinions a hater or a garbage are justified. Obviously.

BTW, a subsidiary is not a branch office, genius. A branch office is not a separate legal entity of the parent corporation. Taxation of the subsidiary is on the subsidiary's income alone, and the liabilities of the subsidiary are not attributable to the parent corporation.

Why don't you go over your day-care phase of "logical" thinking and stop being a complete ignorant cry-baby. Start learning to read and gain the literacy, son, so one day you may try to apply for Berkeley law school or Ivy League Business to gain that feinted expertise of yours.

 

[Stingray]

:lol: Who cares about legal entities or who's paying what taxes, it's irrelevant to anything on this forum. They're the same company. Blab all you want otherwise. I don't care. Doubt anyone else does either. Unless the moderators do.

Why don't you go over your day-care phase of "logical" thinking and stop being a complete ignorant cry-baby. Start learning to read and gain the literacy, son, so one day you may try to apply for Berkeley law school or Ivy League Business to gained that feinted expertise of yours.

Ok, so in addition to nitpicking over silly stuff, you're also a huge prick. Got it.

 

[Capt. Huggy Face]

Why don't you go over your day-care phase of "logical" thinking and stop being a complete ignorant cry-baby. Start learning to read and gain the literacy, son, so one day you may try to apply for Berkeley law school or Ivy League Business to gained that feinted expertise of yours.

(My emphasis.)

If you're going to make nasty personal attacks predicated on someone's supposed ignorance and illiteracy, you might not want to include glaring grammatical errors. Better yet, you might just want to ease up on the nasty personal attacks.

 

[LordKane]

(My emphasis.)

If you're going to make nasty personal attacks predicated on someone's supposed ignorance and illiteracy, you might not want to include glaring grammatical errors. Better yet, you might just want to ease up on the nasty personal attacks.

Reality Pump is TopWare, just as BioWare is EA. Same company, just with a particular office ("studio" in gaming parlance) being given its own name.

All this garbage just because Joxer mistakenly thought a game was developed inside Germany instead of inside Poland?

Oh yeah, calling someone's argument based on fact a garbage is not personal attack, I see.

You've found a typo on an online forum!!!!!!! Thank you for your valiant effort, editor-in-chief! And now: corrected. See? I always admit the mistakes I've made, unlike the ones here who start to post Youtube turd videos when someone points out their "glaring errors".

 

[LordKane]

:lol: Who cares about legal entities or who's paying what taxes, it's irrelevant to anything on this forum. They're the same company. Blab all you want otherwise. I don't care. Doubt anyone else does either. Unless the moderators do.


Ok, so in addition to nitpicking over silly stuff, you're also a huge prick. Got it.

More personal attacks please, that's all you are gonna do, calling someone a garbage or prick, or posting a youtube "video" of turd. They will get you exactly where you want.

Oh, of course you don't care about what's wrong and what's right, it's simply above and beyond, right? But don't pretend you represent all the people on this forum simply because you hang out with 3 other goth kids in your backyard.